No Uranus Neptune and Pluto s

No Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto in Ancient Astrology: Why They Can’t Have a Place There

No Uranus Neptune and Pluto in Ancient Astrology: I explain that since the trans-Saturnian planets cannot rule signs, time, or protect the chart, they have no place in the original and most complete form of Astrology.

I also provide intriguing comparisons on power and wealth between Chinese Metaphysics and Ancient Astrology.

Why should astrologers pay any attention to Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto?

I have been recently very busy with Ancient Astrology and Chinese Physiognomy and integrating those two. In doing so I have been continually amazed and impressed just how powerful, yet simple at the core, this Knowledge is.

So what does this have to do with the trans-Saturnian planets – Uranus, Neptune and Pluto?

Here is a paraphrase of what Joey Yap (founder of the biggest Academy of Chinese Metaphysics in the world) said. I need to make clear the context in which he said it, that is, he spoke generally about life and not about Chinese Astrology or Chinese Metaphysics per se. So here is that paraphrase:

“Why should people listen to you? Are you wealthy, do you have status, do you have knowledge? If not, then stand aside!”

I will be using this statement as a kind of a broad, yet very specific at the same time, metaphor when it comes the trans-Saturnian planets.

The concept of control/rulership over wealth in Chinese Metaphysics

In the Controlling Cycle of Chinese Metaphysics, the Self element/Day Master (the Heavenly Stem on the day of birth of someone) controls the Wealth element.

Loosely speaking, the planets control the zoidia/zodiacal signs and planets there and also put their own resources at the disposal of the planets there. The point is that the relationship is two fold. In other words, the Wealth element can and does weaken/damage/insult the Self element, when the Self element is weak or attacked.

Another analogy, which probably fits better, is the Production Cycle where an element creates another. The Self creates the Output which creates the Wealth element etc. It is similar in a way to the concept of rulership. That is, if a planet is weak or afflicted, but its domicile or exalted lord is strong etc, and especially if it aspects it with application, that planet is strengthened over time. Just as the Self in need of the Resource element, which produces/supports it, can get strengthened.

Here is the first insight. Since Uranus, Neptune and Pluto do NOT and CANNOT rule zoidia/signs/places/houses, they have no “wealth”. They can’t control it either, so why should anyone listen to them?

The concept of power, status, and support in Ancient Astrology

There are various techniques in Ancient Astrology which determine one’s eminence and rank, that is, how high they will go in life. As I have written in several places, this is the second most important thing in Ancient Astrology after calculating the length of life. This is because one has to know the status of the native and whether their life will be mobile (going up, or going down or both, or remaining at the same level) in order to judge properly the level at which the planets operate.

No Uranus Neptune and Pluto

I will mention just two such techniques. One is the concept of body-guarding/spear bearing/doryphoria whereby planets support the Lights (the Sun and the Moon).

There are 3 types of spear bearing and 6 levels of eminence, with at least a few more sub-levels. They start all the way from emperors and kings and go down to very poor or homeless people.

The other technique includes certain fixed stars, which bring up the eminence of the chart. Each has a certain nature, and even though some can elevate the native, then they can also show his fall from grace.

The point is that one needs support to gain status/eminence and power. That support, to some extent, also depends on what each planet controls (point 1 – the “wealth” in the chart). Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto cannot serve as bodyguards/spear bearers. As I also explained – they cannot control anything in the chart. Thus the trans-Saturnian planets cannot support and bring status or misfortune by themselves. Why should anyone listen to them?

In the Metaphysics community it is all about knowledge, or at least it should be (not just good PR and advertising). It is knowledge through which one can learn their Path, the meaning of their life, their strengths and weaknesses, their character and predispositions etc.

In the Production cycle, that is the Resource element, especially the Indirect Resource which rules Metaphysics etc. The point is that it is the planets which, when combined together, based on their rulerships/control, essential nature, placement, reception etc, show one how to uncover and decipher that knowledge.


  • If Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto cannot rule zoidia/signs/houses
  • If they cannot rule time
  • If the trans-Saturnian planets cannot rule Lots
  • If Uranus, Neptune and Pluto cannot support the Lights and bring status
  • Or if they cannot be used as a primary source to determine character and describe one’s life and give them knowledge

Then what good are they? Why should astrologers listen to them?

No new essential knowledge has been discovered to merit the use of additional planets

So unless something new has been discovered, as an essence, then how can there be new knowledge?

More importantly, even if that were the case, then this knowledge would have to be SO incredibly high and more powerful so as to substitute the “old” one.

The modern astrologers who say that Astrology without Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto is no Astrology, do they claim that:

  • There were no psychics/Neptune until 300 years ago
  • There were no visionaries/Uranus
  • Or there were or no secret societies and behind the scenes manipulation/Pluto

Yes, these planets, especially when conjunct the Asc or the MC or when aspecting crucial planets very closely do give such indications (and many more possible meanings of course). However, the important thing is that the astrologer needs more such indications and having these without support means very little to nothing.

Yes, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto work. I doubt anyone will deny that. That is not the point. The point is you need much more than them to paint the whole picture, and Ancient Astrology’s picture has no room for their insignificant contribution.

Which planets have power and which rule time at any given moment? Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto cannot do either

Finally,  I will give you an isolated example, namely pertaining to one topic. When I calculate outright how long someone will live with Ancient Astrology or when they will die (there is a slight difference in those meanings which I use), I need to know who can kill and who cannot. In other words, who has power and who does not.

When a planet becomes busy, that is, it takes over the times from another planet, the first thing I ask it, if you will, is who it is? Is it a killer, is it a protector, or is it merely an observer? If it is not a killer, or a protector, why the hell should I focus on it listening what it has to say? It will only waste my time and detract me from seeing the whole picture!

Likewise when it comes to signifying the generating of wealth, status/eminence or knowledge. Said another way, when a planet describes the person’s life as a whole or during a specific period. Since Uranus, Neptune and Pluto cannot do that, why should anyone listen to them? Indeed.

P.S. Someone will surely think about Spiritual Astrology and say that without Uranus, Neptune and Pluto there can be no spiritual approach – no “higher planets”, right? Wrong. I may write an article about authentic Spiritual Astrology some day.

Written in August 2015

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